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Fifty Shade of Grey pt1
Sep. 16th, 2013 10:11 pmYeah, this is what I'm doing instead of anything I should be doing.
So I found this blog that's doing one of those "let's read through and mock" series based on Fifty Shades of Grey by E L James. And I had a file open as I read the blog, filled with my own comments.
( apparently I have a lot of thoughts )
ETA: But another thing that separates them out is that Bella does grow into a stronger, smarter, braver and more mature, person. Imagine how post turning, post baby Bella would've handled this incident compared to how Ana handles it.
So I found this blog that's doing one of those "let's read through and mock" series based on Fifty Shades of Grey by E L James. And I had a file open as I read the blog, filled with my own comments.
( apparently I have a lot of thoughts )
ETA: But another thing that separates them out is that Bella does grow into a stronger, smarter, braver and more mature, person. Imagine how post turning, post baby Bella would've handled this incident compared to how Ana handles it.
All celebrities show us an at least slightly exaggerated version of themselves, if not an out and out stage persona.
So no, we don't know them, and we really can't. Everything is guesswork. So in a sense, all RPF is written about sort of fictional versions of celebrities distilled from however much we actually know about them.
And that can lead people to feel "well, we don't know, so I can just make everything up". Which is like being a SFF writer and saying "well, it's supposed to be fantasy, I don't need to worry about whether it's plausible". No, at least imo, it only works if you're drawing the most complete and accurate-to-the-best-of-your-abilities- picture of your celebrity. It's part of the fun, part of the challenge. If you've got that, than anything else you do with them is eight times more believable.
Especially since...when you're writing regular fictional people you made up all by yourself, someone who isn't that vital to the story or who only gets referenced but never seen, only exists to serve that purpose. They only matter for the job you brought them in to do. But when you're writing about a real person, you owe them a bit more if you're going to basically root around in their underwear drawer.
Your supporting characters are not cardboard cutouts to move around, they're living people who didn't come into existence just to serve your narrative. They might even have their own independent, devoted fanbase. And if you claim to love your (main character) celebrity so much, how come you can't even hazard a guess as to why they're with that person and you can't be bothered to learn anything about the person they clearly care about?
( fic rant, Morrilla warning )
And it's always the love triangle, never the threesome or maturely negotiated open relationship (or immaturely negotiated one). Even less often is it the grownup person realizing they've made a commitment and should honor it by communicating with their partner and working to improve the relationship they're already in. Because in this case, they're starting from the premise that she doesn't want this guy and never really did.
So no, we don't know them, and we really can't. Everything is guesswork. So in a sense, all RPF is written about sort of fictional versions of celebrities distilled from however much we actually know about them.
And that can lead people to feel "well, we don't know, so I can just make everything up". Which is like being a SFF writer and saying "well, it's supposed to be fantasy, I don't need to worry about whether it's plausible". No, at least imo, it only works if you're drawing the most complete and accurate-to-the-best-of-your-abilities- picture of your celebrity. It's part of the fun, part of the challenge. If you've got that, than anything else you do with them is eight times more believable.
Especially since...when you're writing regular fictional people you made up all by yourself, someone who isn't that vital to the story or who only gets referenced but never seen, only exists to serve that purpose. They only matter for the job you brought them in to do. But when you're writing about a real person, you owe them a bit more if you're going to basically root around in their underwear drawer.
Your supporting characters are not cardboard cutouts to move around, they're living people who didn't come into existence just to serve your narrative. They might even have their own independent, devoted fanbase. And if you claim to love your (main character) celebrity so much, how come you can't even hazard a guess as to why they're with that person and you can't be bothered to learn anything about the person they clearly care about?
( fic rant, Morrilla warning )
And it's always the love triangle, never the threesome or maturely negotiated open relationship (or immaturely negotiated one). Even less often is it the grownup person realizing they've made a commitment and should honor it by communicating with their partner and working to improve the relationship they're already in. Because in this case, they're starting from the premise that she doesn't want this guy and never really did.
Fridge Brilliance in Kings pt whatever
Jun. 3rd, 2013 07:01 pmIn the Bible, Saul's wife is named Ahinoam. She doesn't get talked about that much, especially in Christianity. But her name means My brother is pleasant. 1) Unless I'm missing some information about this definition, even in a pretty unfeminist world like ancient Israel, damn that's cold of her parents. 2) Queen Rose, the "Kings" character who corresponds to her has a slick, charming brother. HAH! I love whoever did the research for this show.
Although William was probably also created so the show could have a genuine villain that we didn't sympathize much with, because really, all the Benjamins are protagonists in their own way- Saul in the Bible was a victim as much as he was a villain, and the show needed someone for us to loathe without reservations.
Shiloh was the city Saul based his government out of in the Bible. David is the one who later moves it to Jerusalem. Shiloh is also a place where some bad stuff went down at one point in the Bible. If I recall, a large faction of people wanted to build a temple there, because of reasons, and other people didn't like that, they thought having two temples made one of them inauthentic because the Shiloh faction was allegedly making up their own rules (because duh, they couldn't keep depending on people who were miles away to run their lives). So it went badly. Shiloh is also the name of a pretty well known battle in the American Civil War...
Vesper Abaddon was played by Brian Cox, who once played Hannibal Lecter. Abaddon is a man so evil and dangerous that he has to be jailed in the country's most secure cell, cut off from all outside contact. Silas visits him sometimes, they play chess and drink wine and Abaddon gives him highly questionable yet brilliantly observant advice. He may be evil but he's the only person Silas can really talk to. OMG, did Vesper Abaddon eat people?
I put a playlist up. It starts with songs by women, and also female covers of songs originally by men, for "Queens" and then follows with the male versions. A couple of the covers are a little shaky but that's what you get with people playing guitar in their bedrooms on Youtube. I was not expecting the female led street busker version of Hinech Yafa to knock my socks off the way it did though...
On Youtube
A weird issue with my Jaqui fic-Since Dianna is, at that point in the fic, still married to Jaqui's brother- Dianna is already a Benjamin. So she's Dianna Shepherd Benjamin, but if she marries Jaqui, she'll still be. So Jaqui wanting to be Jaqui Benjamin Shepherd is really a formality, they already have the same last name.
I don't think the dress Andrew makes Jaqui wear is embarrassing enough. But I'm having a hard time finding a better choice. Jaqui is young, thin, in great shape and knows it, and not shy,what would make her go "I will only put that on under the threat of pain" without it being something a literal prostitute would wear to work?
These are what I've found so far...
http://www.polyvore.com/coral_lace_bodycon_dress/thing?id=84442852
http://www.polyvore.com/forever_21_lace-trimmed_maxi_dress/thing?id=84671491 (in pink)
http://www.polyvore.com/pink_chiffon_prom_dress_strapless/thing?id=81078247
http://www.polyvore.com/sherri_hill_21057/thing?id=83663383
Although William was probably also created so the show could have a genuine villain that we didn't sympathize much with, because really, all the Benjamins are protagonists in their own way- Saul in the Bible was a victim as much as he was a villain, and the show needed someone for us to loathe without reservations.
Shiloh was the city Saul based his government out of in the Bible. David is the one who later moves it to Jerusalem. Shiloh is also a place where some bad stuff went down at one point in the Bible. If I recall, a large faction of people wanted to build a temple there, because of reasons, and other people didn't like that, they thought having two temples made one of them inauthentic because the Shiloh faction was allegedly making up their own rules (because duh, they couldn't keep depending on people who were miles away to run their lives). So it went badly. Shiloh is also the name of a pretty well known battle in the American Civil War...
Vesper Abaddon was played by Brian Cox, who once played Hannibal Lecter. Abaddon is a man so evil and dangerous that he has to be jailed in the country's most secure cell, cut off from all outside contact. Silas visits him sometimes, they play chess and drink wine and Abaddon gives him highly questionable yet brilliantly observant advice. He may be evil but he's the only person Silas can really talk to. OMG, did Vesper Abaddon eat people?
I put a playlist up. It starts with songs by women, and also female covers of songs originally by men, for "Queens" and then follows with the male versions. A couple of the covers are a little shaky but that's what you get with people playing guitar in their bedrooms on Youtube. I was not expecting the female led street busker version of Hinech Yafa to knock my socks off the way it did though...
On Youtube
A weird issue with my Jaqui fic-Since Dianna is, at that point in the fic, still married to Jaqui's brother- Dianna is already a Benjamin. So she's Dianna Shepherd Benjamin, but if she marries Jaqui, she'll still be. So Jaqui wanting to be Jaqui Benjamin Shepherd is really a formality, they already have the same last name.
I don't think the dress Andrew makes Jaqui wear is embarrassing enough. But I'm having a hard time finding a better choice. Jaqui is young, thin, in great shape and knows it, and not shy,what would make her go "I will only put that on under the threat of pain" without it being something a literal prostitute would wear to work?
These are what I've found so far...
http://www.polyvore.com/coral_lace_bodycon_dress/thing?id=84442852
http://www.polyvore.com/forever_21_lace-trimmed_maxi_dress/thing?id=84671491 (in pink)
http://www.polyvore.com/pink_chiffon_prom_dress_strapless/thing?id=81078247
http://www.polyvore.com/sherri_hill_21057/thing?id=83663383
(no subject)
May. 30th, 2013 12:34 pmWe're rid of the poison
Jonathan loved David as his own soul. And early on in Kings, Jack Benjamin loved David Shepherd exactly as much as he loved himself...and he didn't love himself.
How could he?
Jonathan loved David as his own soul. And early on in Kings, Jack Benjamin loved David Shepherd exactly as much as he loved himself...and he didn't love himself.
How could he?
Let's Go Home: Kings and Captain America
May. 22nd, 2013 03:01 pmJack Benjamin gets sent to war, held hostage, and has to be rescued by his best friend again. ( I know this isn't meant terribly literally, it's more of a reference to the fact that they're played by the same actor).
Steve and Bucky (and we're talking mostly about the 2011 movie here) certainly have a David and Jonathan vibe. But more in the traditional Bible sense, not as much the "Kings" version. Bucky starts out as Steve's protector, the confident, successful one. Steve has the heart of a warrior but no one wants him on the battlefield. And then when Steve eclipses him via Deus ex Machina, and becomes a potent national rallying symbol in war time, Bucky, just like Jonathan, graciously deals with it like a grownup and accepts his supporting role because he loves him that much. As anyone who has seen Kings knows, this is not how Jack Benjamin reacted to David being praised as the hero while he was given a desk job and told the hostage situation was his own fault. He's not at all proud of David for turning out to be just as awesome on the outside as he always knew David was inside.
( He didn't...actually know David before David rescued him )
I'd like to mention that that hot fic I linked to earlier, it's gone. This makes me sad and disappointed and a little freaked out. Why is it gone? What happened?
hard to dance with the devil on your back
May. 13th, 2013 09:49 amJack Benjamin and TJ Hammond weren't really "basically the same person". Not now that I think about it. Yes, they're both the gay children of politicians and each have a "good" twin. But otherwise...
TJ is out, and his parents are fairly supportive of him in that regard. Do they take his life goals seriously? Definitely not, but no one is allowed to take pot shots at his sexuality. Jack, not so much. In fact, his parents will do anything to keep him from coming out, including killing people. So if TJ wants to kill himself so badly, I'd love to see him handle Jack's life.
TJ: I came out to my family and it was mortifying.
Jack: My mother slapped me and my dad yelled at me until I burst into tears.
TJ: I was outed while my father was president. People said horrible things about me in the media.
Jack: I tried to come out and my mother had my boyfriend murdered. Also, my dad called me a slur on live tv and then tried to have me thrown in prison.
TJ: I had an affair with a married Republican and people found out.
Jack: I was locked in a bedroom and forced to procreate with the woman I was basically forced to marry. In fact, I might still be in there, the audience doesn't even know.
TJ: My family wouldn't loan me money to open a club and then didn't bother showing up to the opening anyway.
Jack: My dad made me crawl on the floor and kiss his feet in front of my mother, my girlfriend, my sister and some random dude she was dating. He told me he didn't love me and that I'd be dead if I screwed up again.
TJ: I tried to kill myself.
Jack: I got shot.
Sebastian Stan feels that Jack had "a stronger sense of self". I gotta agree. Jack's whole problem is his desire to hold onto his basic sense of self in the midst of people who want him to be anything else. It's an epic battle of will between Jack and his parents.
1) He wants to be king.
2) He wants his parents attention and approval.
3) He wants a boyfriend.
He can really only have one of those.
TJ doesn't seem to know what to do with himself, or who he's supposed to be.
Jack has a job. He's career military. He liked his job and he was good at it. He's been sidelined by a traumatic event, and then other events sort of take over, but he did have a real career of his own, a productive role in society that he felt comfortable in.
TJ's an addict, his whole arc is built on his struggle with addiction. Jack is not. I mean, personally, I think he might be bordering on becoming a functioning alcoholic, but he can pull it together when he needs to, and I might have different standards for what counts as "too much drinking" anyway.
TJ could be cynical and snarky, but Jack was mean and propelled through life by resentment and vengeance like some kind of male Blair Waldorf. I think Jack would eat TJ alive.
TJ is out, and his parents are fairly supportive of him in that regard. Do they take his life goals seriously? Definitely not, but no one is allowed to take pot shots at his sexuality. Jack, not so much. In fact, his parents will do anything to keep him from coming out, including killing people. So if TJ wants to kill himself so badly, I'd love to see him handle Jack's life.
TJ: I came out to my family and it was mortifying.
Jack: My mother slapped me and my dad yelled at me until I burst into tears.
TJ: I was outed while my father was president. People said horrible things about me in the media.
Jack: I tried to come out and my mother had my boyfriend murdered. Also, my dad called me a slur on live tv and then tried to have me thrown in prison.
TJ: I had an affair with a married Republican and people found out.
Jack: I was locked in a bedroom and forced to procreate with the woman I was basically forced to marry. In fact, I might still be in there, the audience doesn't even know.
TJ: My family wouldn't loan me money to open a club and then didn't bother showing up to the opening anyway.
Jack: My dad made me crawl on the floor and kiss his feet in front of my mother, my girlfriend, my sister and some random dude she was dating. He told me he didn't love me and that I'd be dead if I screwed up again.
TJ: I tried to kill myself.
Jack: I got shot.
Sebastian Stan feels that Jack had "a stronger sense of self". I gotta agree. Jack's whole problem is his desire to hold onto his basic sense of self in the midst of people who want him to be anything else. It's an epic battle of will between Jack and his parents.
1) He wants to be king.
2) He wants his parents attention and approval.
3) He wants a boyfriend.
He can really only have one of those.
TJ doesn't seem to know what to do with himself, or who he's supposed to be.
Jack has a job. He's career military. He liked his job and he was good at it. He's been sidelined by a traumatic event, and then other events sort of take over, but he did have a real career of his own, a productive role in society that he felt comfortable in.
TJ's an addict, his whole arc is built on his struggle with addiction. Jack is not. I mean, personally, I think he might be bordering on becoming a functioning alcoholic, but he can pull it together when he needs to, and I might have different standards for what counts as "too much drinking" anyway.
TJ could be cynical and snarky, but Jack was mean and propelled through life by resentment and vengeance like some kind of male Blair Waldorf. I think Jack would eat TJ alive.
spoilers for SPN "Clip Show"
May. 8th, 2013 10:55 pmSometimes a show just gets to the point where you can't deal with it anymore.
Fans used to "joke" that Supernatural was like an abusive boyfriend. Well, Supernatural has shown up drunk at three a.m and begged me to let him sleep on the couch for the last time.
I used to never miss an episode. Then in the last two seasons, it became more of a "I'll watch it if I'm home and it's on" and then turned into "Oh? Supernatural's on, I guess..." and if I watch, I'm working on the computer or something (even sitting with my back to the screen) instead of glued to what's happening, with a bowl of ice cream in my lap. A show I was so incredibly invested in has become background noise.
( It's over )
At least Avery and Juliet on Nashville are making me laugh with her persistent inability to remember that they've already met.
Fans used to "joke" that Supernatural was like an abusive boyfriend. Well, Supernatural has shown up drunk at three a.m and begged me to let him sleep on the couch for the last time.
I used to never miss an episode. Then in the last two seasons, it became more of a "I'll watch it if I'm home and it's on" and then turned into "Oh? Supernatural's on, I guess..." and if I watch, I'm working on the computer or something (even sitting with my back to the screen) instead of glued to what's happening, with a bowl of ice cream in my lap. A show I was so incredibly invested in has become background noise.
( It's over )
At least Avery and Juliet on Nashville are making me laugh with her persistent inability to remember that they've already met.
Brought Up From the Footnotes: Trauma
Apr. 30th, 2013 04:15 pmI've already said I don't think Jack would vocalize the fact that he and Lucinda were sexually assaulted, not just because so much of the world is conditioned to not let guys say that out loud (and it's his parents that do that to them, which might make it even harder to acknowledge). I don't know. But also,
The show also never used the word "gay", or the phrase "veteran with serious PTSD". Now, I'm sure the lack of use of the word "gay" was to prevent angry protests from more puritanical viewers (oh if only enough people watched to generate angry letters!) but also...it helps establish this fictional world as a place where people just don't talk about stuff. I mean, when he comes back from the front, people basically act as if he was merely in a bad car accident or something. His entire unit was slaughtered and he was taken hostage. He might be having all sorts of FEELS that no one seems very interested in hearing about and which are causing a great deal of his over emotional, erratic behavior. Not that I believe he was a Super Good and Stable Person before, I think he was already a little broken, but if you see him as a PTSD suffering veteran, he starts to make more sense.
Weepy, mood swings, rage, disturbing risk taking, wildly shifting between sadism and masochism, heavy drinking, abusive to lover, girlfriend, sister, surrogate brother... this is a person who is clearly going off the rails and almost no one is doing anything about it. ETA: well, I think Silas wanted Jack in a desk job for maybe that reason, that he was afraid for Jack's mental health and physical safety but of course he doesn't come out and say that. So Jack thinks he's let everyone down and goes overboard trying to compensate.
Shame about being captured and needing to be rescued when he was supposed to be in charge and come back a hero.
Guilt about being one of two survivors out of fourteen men. Can you just stop and try to picture that scene from his pov for a moment? No one comes out of something like that okay.
A warrior kept out of the fight, trained 24/7 to respond to situations in certain ways, trying to readjust to civilian life (having trouble settling on on a way to be of use until he decides Being King is it) where he is...
Blamed for screwing up even though he didn't, he was set up. He knows enough to know that he was not at fault, but people are totally gas lighting him about it.
When he's alone with Belial, he comes close to really losing it, it's his first time back on active duty, he can't get David to follow orders, and...he seems to be having trouble fitting into the role he's always played so well before, instead of continuing to calmly torture the guy for information, Jack allows Belial to make him lose his composure.
It also explains why Jack is so determined to avoid too much bloodshed and why William doesn't consider that relevant. Jack's been out there, fighting William's war, watching his own friends get mowed down (he also knows that William is supplying both sides in order to prolong the war and make more profit). William and his cronies sit up in their offices and get Jack's friends killed.
I kind of like that they don't come out and say most of this, partly because unpacking it on my own gives me more to analyze in a show that was cancelled four years ago and only has thirteen episodes. Not sure how well I'm doing at following this tone in my own fic, but I am monitoring that situation.
The show also never used the word "gay", or the phrase "veteran with serious PTSD". Now, I'm sure the lack of use of the word "gay" was to prevent angry protests from more puritanical viewers (oh if only enough people watched to generate angry letters!) but also...it helps establish this fictional world as a place where people just don't talk about stuff. I mean, when he comes back from the front, people basically act as if he was merely in a bad car accident or something. His entire unit was slaughtered and he was taken hostage. He might be having all sorts of FEELS that no one seems very interested in hearing about and which are causing a great deal of his over emotional, erratic behavior. Not that I believe he was a Super Good and Stable Person before, I think he was already a little broken, but if you see him as a PTSD suffering veteran, he starts to make more sense.
Weepy, mood swings, rage, disturbing risk taking, wildly shifting between sadism and masochism, heavy drinking, abusive to lover, girlfriend, sister, surrogate brother... this is a person who is clearly going off the rails and almost no one is doing anything about it. ETA: well, I think Silas wanted Jack in a desk job for maybe that reason, that he was afraid for Jack's mental health and physical safety but of course he doesn't come out and say that. So Jack thinks he's let everyone down and goes overboard trying to compensate.
Shame about being captured and needing to be rescued when he was supposed to be in charge and come back a hero.
Guilt about being one of two survivors out of fourteen men. Can you just stop and try to picture that scene from his pov for a moment? No one comes out of something like that okay.
A warrior kept out of the fight, trained 24/7 to respond to situations in certain ways, trying to readjust to civilian life (having trouble settling on on a way to be of use until he decides Being King is it) where he is...
Blamed for screwing up even though he didn't, he was set up. He knows enough to know that he was not at fault, but people are totally gas lighting him about it.
When he's alone with Belial, he comes close to really losing it, it's his first time back on active duty, he can't get David to follow orders, and...he seems to be having trouble fitting into the role he's always played so well before, instead of continuing to calmly torture the guy for information, Jack allows Belial to make him lose his composure.
It also explains why Jack is so determined to avoid too much bloodshed and why William doesn't consider that relevant. Jack's been out there, fighting William's war, watching his own friends get mowed down (he also knows that William is supplying both sides in order to prolong the war and make more profit). William and his cronies sit up in their offices and get Jack's friends killed.
I kind of like that they don't come out and say most of this, partly because unpacking it on my own gives me more to analyze in a show that was cancelled four years ago and only has thirteen episodes. Not sure how well I'm doing at following this tone in my own fic, but I am monitoring that situation.
Since I am shipping Mad Swan (one of the few het pairings I've encountered in semi canon of anything where I'm genuinely, authentically like "I'll be in bunk") I have read a lot of fic about them. Which brings me to a pet peeve that only grows stronger every day.
Stop saying he's tall. Geez, seriously, stop it.
He's not tall. He's not so short that you could put him in your pocket or anything(he's taller than Tom Cruise and Robert Downey Jr, I believe) but he's certainly not tall enough to ever be described accurately as "tall". we've been through this already
look at him standing next to both Lana Parilla and Jennifer Morrison in 'Hat Trick',. He is taller than them but not by enough for it to be something worth remarking on, just in the general way men are often taller than women.
And yet a lot of OUaT het fics go out of their way to make sure we know Jefferson is "tall". I ran across a random fic that had Emma and Ruby describing him as "six foot three". In what alternate universe where he is played by a different actor?
It's like the opposite of that slash trope where writers make/draw one of the guys- usually the uke/bottom as extra short. And use of the word "little" has appeared in some Hatter slash (he's almost always the bottom in OUaT slash). But Kings fic usually correctly observes that Jack and David Shepherd were nearly the same height.
Other young men on OuAT as their heights compare to Jefferson:
Josh Dallas (David/Charming) is six foot one.
Colin O'Donahue (Hook) is five foot eleven
Eoin Bailey (August) is six feet
Jamie Dornan (Sheriff Graham) is six feet
David Anders (Dr Whale) is six feet
Not only is he not six foot three (at five eleven, he's below average and one of the shorter guys in this cast), none of these guys are. It wouldn't surprise me if they deliberately tried to make sure Prince Charming was the tallest guy in the cast. And notice, Josh Dallas is not even six foot three. Do these writers not understand how tall six foot three actually is?
Sebastian Stan has added muscle recently, but...your height is your height once you've reached it (he's twenty eight) until you get old and start shrinking. And he's five fricking eleven (in some places reported as five ten or even five nine but let's go with five eleven).
In Jacob Clifton's recap of this episode of Gossip Girl, he nicknames Carter Baizen "a wee sexy Hobbit".
Look at a lot of photos of Stan (as I have recently) and notice that he's often wearing boots with thick soles or a slight heel to them...
Stop saying he's tall. Geez, seriously, stop it.
He's not tall. He's not so short that you could put him in your pocket or anything(he's taller than Tom Cruise and Robert Downey Jr, I believe) but he's certainly not tall enough to ever be described accurately as "tall". we've been through this already
look at him standing next to both Lana Parilla and Jennifer Morrison in 'Hat Trick',. He is taller than them but not by enough for it to be something worth remarking on, just in the general way men are often taller than women.
And yet a lot of OUaT het fics go out of their way to make sure we know Jefferson is "tall". I ran across a random fic that had Emma and Ruby describing him as "six foot three". In what alternate universe where he is played by a different actor?
It's like the opposite of that slash trope where writers make/draw one of the guys- usually the uke/bottom as extra short. And use of the word "little" has appeared in some Hatter slash (he's almost always the bottom in OUaT slash). But Kings fic usually correctly observes that Jack and David Shepherd were nearly the same height.
Other young men on OuAT as their heights compare to Jefferson:
Josh Dallas (David/Charming) is six foot one.
Colin O'Donahue (Hook) is five foot eleven
Eoin Bailey (August) is six feet
Jamie Dornan (Sheriff Graham) is six feet
David Anders (Dr Whale) is six feet
Not only is he not six foot three (at five eleven, he's below average and one of the shorter guys in this cast), none of these guys are. It wouldn't surprise me if they deliberately tried to make sure Prince Charming was the tallest guy in the cast. And notice, Josh Dallas is not even six foot three. Do these writers not understand how tall six foot three actually is?
Sebastian Stan has added muscle recently, but...your height is your height once you've reached it (he's twenty eight) until you get old and start shrinking. And he's five fricking eleven (in some places reported as five ten or even five nine but let's go with five eleven).
In Jacob Clifton's recap of this episode of Gossip Girl, he nicknames Carter Baizen "a wee sexy Hobbit".
Look at a lot of photos of Stan (as I have recently) and notice that he's often wearing boots with thick soles or a slight heel to them...
While Jefferson is not in the least evil, he lacks honor. We have seen that many of the "good" characters lack honor. Gepetto comes to mind.
If he had real honor, it would prevent him from entering into what is essentially a betrayal of an innocent party, Emma. Regardless of how much he wants to be with his child. Regina preys on people with a poor sense of honor.
Prince Charming is a character with an almost impossible sense of honor. Hence, he is incorruptible.
That's pretty much the cornerstone of Jefferson's “stupidly keeps trusting Regina” problem. Con artists say that the easiest people in the world to con are the ones who are dishonest themselves. It's exactly the same problem Jack found himself tangled up in when he got into bed with Uncle William. William preyed on the fact that Jack was desperately willing to do anything to win that crown, and when Jack wanted out, he couldn't extricate himself because he wasn't an innocent party. If William had chosen David (Shepherd not Nolan like it makes a difference) as his potential puppet, David would've been like “ Um, no thanks, Jack's Creepy Uncle, I don't want to be king of anyone.”
Biblical David definitely ended up corrupt, but largely on his own terms, because he had such a strong sense of agency. (B!David: "Oh, I'm totally going to end up corrupt, but only after everyone gives me All The Things because they think I'm a good person").
If he had real honor, it would prevent him from entering into what is essentially a betrayal of an innocent party, Emma. Regardless of how much he wants to be with his child. Regina preys on people with a poor sense of honor.
Prince Charming is a character with an almost impossible sense of honor. Hence, he is incorruptible.
That's pretty much the cornerstone of Jefferson's “stupidly keeps trusting Regina” problem. Con artists say that the easiest people in the world to con are the ones who are dishonest themselves. It's exactly the same problem Jack found himself tangled up in when he got into bed with Uncle William. William preyed on the fact that Jack was desperately willing to do anything to win that crown, and when Jack wanted out, he couldn't extricate himself because he wasn't an innocent party. If William had chosen David (Shepherd not Nolan like it makes a difference) as his potential puppet, David would've been like “ Um, no thanks, Jack's Creepy Uncle, I don't want to be king of anyone.”
Biblical David definitely ended up corrupt, but largely on his own terms, because he had such a strong sense of agency. (B!David: "Oh, I'm totally going to end up corrupt, but only after everyone gives me All The Things because they think I'm a good person").
Queer in Storybrooke pt 2
Apr. 27th, 2013 10:49 amThe Relationships Thread, as linked to earlier, but this is the part that upset me.
Then someone suggests Jefferson could hook up with August (this was before ( spoiler ) and someone else points out (as I did a few entries back in this journal) that Storybrooke lacks any gay characters. The thread devolves from there for several pages into an argument about GLBT representation on the show and it does so in a way that nearly makes me cry.
Apparently, the show shouldn't “do gay characters just to show how progressive they are” and people “don't see why the show needs gay characters”. A couple of people even tried to claim that the show shouldn't be ethnically diverse "just to show how progressive they are" (or something to that affect). Well, of course not, they should do it because it is reality that people are diverse. Yes, even in small town coastal Maine.
( Because...well...because! )
Actually, all joking about slash aside, I am in love with the idea of Emma/Jefferson. If it never happens, I will cry, I promise you. I.will.cry.
I mean, I've read some hot, hot Hook/Jefferson, which makes sense with the leather pants and the eyeliner and the moral ambiguity and both coming from Victorian children's novels with somewhat disturbing subtext...but really, I don't trust Hook with anyone on a permanent basis. He's Captain fricking Hook. Jefferson is ambiguous and has the clear goal of only really being concerned about his own family, while Hook is a straight up villain. Sexual encounters, sure, but I can't picture him like, moving in and helping pick out curtains with a man who is so fiercely protective of his preteen daughter. And that means I can't get behind a serious Emma/Hook relationship either.
No character with a kid is going to let that man in their house.
Then someone suggests Jefferson could hook up with August (this was before ( spoiler ) and someone else points out (as I did a few entries back in this journal) that Storybrooke lacks any gay characters. The thread devolves from there for several pages into an argument about GLBT representation on the show and it does so in a way that nearly makes me cry.
Apparently, the show shouldn't “do gay characters just to show how progressive they are” and people “don't see why the show needs gay characters”. A couple of people even tried to claim that the show shouldn't be ethnically diverse "just to show how progressive they are" (or something to that affect). Well, of course not, they should do it because it is reality that people are diverse. Yes, even in small town coastal Maine.
( Because...well...because! )
Actually, all joking about slash aside, I am in love with the idea of Emma/Jefferson. If it never happens, I will cry, I promise you. I.will.cry.
I mean, I've read some hot, hot Hook/Jefferson, which makes sense with the leather pants and the eyeliner and the moral ambiguity and both coming from Victorian children's novels with somewhat disturbing subtext...but really, I don't trust Hook with anyone on a permanent basis. He's Captain fricking Hook. Jefferson is ambiguous and has the clear goal of only really being concerned about his own family, while Hook is a straight up villain. Sexual encounters, sure, but I can't picture him like, moving in and helping pick out curtains with a man who is so fiercely protective of his preteen daughter. And that means I can't get behind a serious Emma/Hook relationship either.
No character with a kid is going to let that man in their house.
It seems that fans don't want a Wonderland spinoff if Sebastian Stan isn't going to be in it. Reading the Ausiello comments, it appears that there are only two other actors they'd even accept in the role (Andrew Potts or Seth Gabel), but mostly, people are baffled as to why the network thinks recasting will work. Fans adored Jefferson because of what his actor brought to the role, most people are saying that they'd rather wait until Stan is free to come back than put up with a substitute in the spinoff. It's the Hatter as played by Stan that people responded so well to, not the idea of Wonderland itself. I mean, Alice in Wonderland is always a safe, popular property for anyone doing, well, anything,(for me, it's absolutely one of my favorite stories ever- I had an Alice costume when I was little) but people would be more okay with not getting a spinoff than they would be with not getting Sebastian Stan back ever.
It's not just that he's a devastatingly good looking man with great chemistry with at least two of the show's actresses, it's that if he never comes back he's leaving a lot of plotholes. This is why I stopped watching daytime soaps, because they believe that you can simply replace one actor with another very similar one and it won't make a difference, and it does.
It'd be far better for ABC to sort out the current problems with Once, like their giant cast and numerous dropped plots, than spread themselves too thin with a spinoff.
( What does Thirty look like? )
It's not just that he's a devastatingly good looking man with great chemistry with at least two of the show's actresses, it's that if he never comes back he's leaving a lot of plotholes. This is why I stopped watching daytime soaps, because they believe that you can simply replace one actor with another very similar one and it won't make a difference, and it does.
It'd be far better for ABC to sort out the current problems with Once, like their giant cast and numerous dropped plots, than spread themselves too thin with a spinoff.
( What does Thirty look like? )
Kings and Hatters (OUaT Spoiler warnings)
Apr. 22nd, 2013 08:32 pmIf they had brought Kings back for multiple seasons, that might not have been the best thing after all. It could've weirdly ended up preventing these actors from getting other work.
ABC wanted to do a Mad Hatter spinoff. It is going forward but will not star the Hatter after all. Sebastian Stan couldn't do it, because he just signed a six movie deal with Marvel. Yes, you read that right, he had to turn down the chance to star in his own tv spin off because he's been hired to costar in more movies in the Captain America franchise. Yeah, it's good to be Sebastian Stan right now... and he wouldn't be able to do any of that if he was committed to the fourth season of a seriously heavy drama series. Furthermore, if “Kings” was still airing at 8 pm on Sundays, that's the same timeslot as “Once Upon a Time”. Not only would Kings find itself competing with this huge hit, that is, in some ways, a similar show (but lighter and softer*) but it would mean that OuaT would have no Mad Hatter-as-memorably-portrayed-by-Stan. Because The Big Three networks are notoriously possessive of their employees and would never allow one of the major stars of a show to have a recurring role on a rival network's show that their show competes with for ratings. Another reason Kings should've been on cable.
I do really hope he can come back once in awhile to OUaT. I hope he's not so busy that they move on without him and we never get to find out what was up with him and Regina (exes? step or half siblings obsessed with each other a la Cruel Intentions?)or how he lost his wife and why he ended up poor or whether he will hook up with Emma. And what is his full name? Jefferson what?
And I just want to get something I want out of tv for once, because nothing else is going well for me right now.
( Kings and Hatters )
screencap is from here
**characters from a classic story lifted en mass out of their original setting and put down somewhere else.
ABC wanted to do a Mad Hatter spinoff. It is going forward but will not star the Hatter after all. Sebastian Stan couldn't do it, because he just signed a six movie deal with Marvel. Yes, you read that right, he had to turn down the chance to star in his own tv spin off because he's been hired to costar in more movies in the Captain America franchise. Yeah, it's good to be Sebastian Stan right now... and he wouldn't be able to do any of that if he was committed to the fourth season of a seriously heavy drama series. Furthermore, if “Kings” was still airing at 8 pm on Sundays, that's the same timeslot as “Once Upon a Time”. Not only would Kings find itself competing with this huge hit, that is, in some ways, a similar show (but lighter and softer*) but it would mean that OuaT would have no Mad Hatter-as-memorably-portrayed-by-Stan. Because The Big Three networks are notoriously possessive of their employees and would never allow one of the major stars of a show to have a recurring role on a rival network's show that their show competes with for ratings. Another reason Kings should've been on cable.
I do really hope he can come back once in awhile to OUaT. I hope he's not so busy that they move on without him and we never get to find out what was up with him and Regina (exes? step or half siblings obsessed with each other a la Cruel Intentions?)or how he lost his wife and why he ended up poor or whether he will hook up with Emma. And what is his full name? Jefferson what?
And I just want to get something I want out of tv for once, because nothing else is going well for me right now.
( Kings and Hatters )
screencap is from here
**characters from a classic story lifted en mass out of their original setting and put down somewhere else.
Jack tells his driver, Stu, “It's good to have someone I can trust”, just before they go have sex. Later, Jack will say something very similar to David before lovingly adjusting his tie and hugging him (Jack doesn't initiate hugs with any other character). Lucinda walks in on Stu and Jack being flirty. Stu is playing with the end of Jack's tie, and lovingly adjusting/playing with someone's clothing is repeatedly used on this show to denote a sexual relationship or the desire to have one with a person. Toward the end of the series, Lucinda attempts to fix Jack's collar and he angrily rejects her efforts.
Probably not coincidentally, Stu physically resembles some sort of David stand in (only way taller and that's a little hot and where is this fic?).
Jack is always touching David when he doesn't have to, while Michelle, who is supposed to be openly and canonically in love with him, rarely employs the same sorts of random displays of affection. In Biblical culture, unmarried, unrelated men and women were forbidden from unnecessary touching, yet were free to be as physically demonstrative as they wanted with their own gender, but I can't believe that convention remains in a modern adaptation. Unrelated men and women touch each other all the time on this show. I doubt it's because Jack's just naturally a more physically affectionate person (see above). Jack's all over him in exactly the way a closeted gay person is with someone they have a thing for. The head tilts, the tone of voice, the side eyes, the adorable charming grin-
The only woman Jack shows any genuine flicker of sexual attraction to is Katrina Ghent, a tall, strong looking blue eyed blonde.
Joseph thinks Jack is cheating on him with David when he sees Jack watching David at the club. In fact, Jack begins to reject, ignore and abuse, his actual boyfriend the minute David comes into his life.
He is, blatantly, trying to seduce David in a way, he's trying to find out if David has vices he can exploit, but after "Brotherhood" they become real friends, sort of. And David, he's been seducing Jack all along, but in his own Davidish way, which means he's doing it without even realizing he is.
By the way, in that scene at the end of "Brotherhood" when they're standing in front of the altar, they really do totally look like they're getting married.
"He did come to you. Offered himself behind my back. Yours for the taking. Shameful, the two of you laughing at me." And then Silas is yelling "backstabbing, cheating whore!" as he's choking David. He's talking about God choosing David over him, but geez. I'm pretty sure I actually wrote that in a B!David slash fic and then I wrote it again in an AU story project... And Silas seems to believe that Jack is kind of...that he lacks sexual integrity... and is still angry that he defended David in public, and Jack just tried to steal the throne and...
Because Jack's dad outs him in public immediately after Jack jumps up to defend David in court, the people watching are bound to make certain connections that neither Jack nor David are necessarily aware of themselves yet. But I can see the people of Shiloh automatically starting to frame this as a tragic "gay star crossed lovers" scandal. And they'd be supportive.
Because despite his possible inability to produce a biological heir by directly having sex with a woman, and the fact that he might not have turned out to be a very good king (even without Cross's bullying), the people seem to love Jack. And they *certainly* love David, they'll love whoever David loves.
It's like the incident where Jonathan broke the fast, and Saul wanted to have him put to death because he felt it wouldn't be fair to treat his own son different.
Saul: Well, this is wrenching and tragic but I have to kill my son for screwing up.
The People: Nooooo, leave him alone!
Saul: I really wish it didn't have to be this way, son.
The People: It's okay, we promise, we won't be mad if you just forget he did whatever it is you think he did!
Probably not coincidentally, Stu physically resembles some sort of David stand in (only way taller and that's a little hot and where is this fic?).
Jack is always touching David when he doesn't have to, while Michelle, who is supposed to be openly and canonically in love with him, rarely employs the same sorts of random displays of affection. In Biblical culture, unmarried, unrelated men and women were forbidden from unnecessary touching, yet were free to be as physically demonstrative as they wanted with their own gender, but I can't believe that convention remains in a modern adaptation. Unrelated men and women touch each other all the time on this show. I doubt it's because Jack's just naturally a more physically affectionate person (see above). Jack's all over him in exactly the way a closeted gay person is with someone they have a thing for. The head tilts, the tone of voice, the side eyes, the adorable charming grin-
The only woman Jack shows any genuine flicker of sexual attraction to is Katrina Ghent, a tall, strong looking blue eyed blonde.
Joseph thinks Jack is cheating on him with David when he sees Jack watching David at the club. In fact, Jack begins to reject, ignore and abuse, his actual boyfriend the minute David comes into his life.
He is, blatantly, trying to seduce David in a way, he's trying to find out if David has vices he can exploit, but after "Brotherhood" they become real friends, sort of. And David, he's been seducing Jack all along, but in his own Davidish way, which means he's doing it without even realizing he is.
By the way, in that scene at the end of "Brotherhood" when they're standing in front of the altar, they really do totally look like they're getting married.
"He did come to you. Offered himself behind my back. Yours for the taking. Shameful, the two of you laughing at me." And then Silas is yelling "backstabbing, cheating whore!" as he's choking David. He's talking about God choosing David over him, but geez. I'm pretty sure I actually wrote that in a B!David slash fic and then I wrote it again in an AU story project... And Silas seems to believe that Jack is kind of...that he lacks sexual integrity... and is still angry that he defended David in public, and Jack just tried to steal the throne and...
Because Jack's dad outs him in public immediately after Jack jumps up to defend David in court, the people watching are bound to make certain connections that neither Jack nor David are necessarily aware of themselves yet. But I can see the people of Shiloh automatically starting to frame this as a tragic "gay star crossed lovers" scandal. And they'd be supportive.
Because despite his possible inability to produce a biological heir by directly having sex with a woman, and the fact that he might not have turned out to be a very good king (even without Cross's bullying), the people seem to love Jack. And they *certainly* love David, they'll love whoever David loves.
It's like the incident where Jonathan broke the fast, and Saul wanted to have him put to death because he felt it wouldn't be fair to treat his own son different.
Saul: Well, this is wrenching and tragic but I have to kill my son for screwing up.
The People: Nooooo, leave him alone!
Saul: I really wish it didn't have to be this way, son.
The People: It's okay, we promise, we won't be mad if you just forget he did whatever it is you think he did!
Interesting Fan Theories
Apr. 10th, 2013 04:17 pm1) Jack and Michelle are not the biological children of Silas and Rose, they are actually Vesper Abaddon's kids. This is based on an offhand remark Silas makes to Abaddon, when he shows him a photo and tells him that "she" is doing well. But where this theory falls apart is the fact that Jack and Michelle look like Silas's kids. I really can't believe that they're anything else, look at them. However, I could believe that Rose and William were the children of the deposed despot. Especially if we're seeing a Generation Xerox thing, with David=Silas and Jack and Michelle= William and Rose. It would certainly explain Andrew, who's just scary insane.
2) Rose will use Michelle's baby and pass it off as Jack and Lucinda's. I can totally see this. Rose may be vicious and dangerous but she's not insane like her husband. She will find a way to get her son freed while also fixing her daughter's problem (of being impregnated by a man Silas wants to kill). One of her kids needs a baby, the other one has a baby no one knows about yet, and her children are twins. It all depends on how angry she is with Jack, and how much evidence is required that Jack and Lucinda actually had sex.
3) Some of the characters are The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
William Cross is War. His company supplies arms and other related things, and therefore he believes war is good for the economy and hence, fantastic for his own wallet. He was willing to keep that war going at the cost of the lives of members of his own family. Unlike many other characters, he has no (as far as we're aware) woobifying excuse, he has just coldly assessed the situation and decided he'll make more money if people die than if they don't.
Michelle is Pestilence. Not knowingly, of course. But her original illness is the catalyst for several important events in the story, and in general, the plot repeatedly associates her with issues of physical health. Silas made his vow to God to save her. She's stumping for improvements in Gilboa's healthcare system. She is also able to remain inside a plague quarantine unit, snuggling up to a patient without getting sick.
Silas is constantly eating, cooking or talking about food- is he Famine? There's just so much food imagery associated with him.
Although the personification of Death does exist in this 'verse and we see her- is David also Death? Well, he's sort of an opposite force... Because everyone whose life he saves just ends up worse off. Every single named main character he saves comes to regret being alive. David ruins everything.
2) Rose will use Michelle's baby and pass it off as Jack and Lucinda's. I can totally see this. Rose may be vicious and dangerous but she's not insane like her husband. She will find a way to get her son freed while also fixing her daughter's problem (of being impregnated by a man Silas wants to kill). One of her kids needs a baby, the other one has a baby no one knows about yet, and her children are twins. It all depends on how angry she is with Jack, and how much evidence is required that Jack and Lucinda actually had sex.
3) Some of the characters are The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
William Cross is War. His company supplies arms and other related things, and therefore he believes war is good for the economy and hence, fantastic for his own wallet. He was willing to keep that war going at the cost of the lives of members of his own family. Unlike many other characters, he has no (as far as we're aware) woobifying excuse, he has just coldly assessed the situation and decided he'll make more money if people die than if they don't.
Michelle is Pestilence. Not knowingly, of course. But her original illness is the catalyst for several important events in the story, and in general, the plot repeatedly associates her with issues of physical health. Silas made his vow to God to save her. She's stumping for improvements in Gilboa's healthcare system. She is also able to remain inside a plague quarantine unit, snuggling up to a patient without getting sick.
Silas is constantly eating, cooking or talking about food- is he Famine? There's just so much food imagery associated with him.
Although the personification of Death does exist in this 'verse and we see her- is David also Death? Well, he's sort of an opposite force... Because everyone whose life he saves just ends up worse off. Every single named main character he saves comes to regret being alive. David ruins everything.
Rule 63 Kings Fic
Apr. 10th, 2013 09:51 amSo, I finally did that Rule 63 Kings fic I was talking about doing.
Queens.
Pairings: David/Jack, Jack/Lucinda, Jack/Andrew, David/Michelle
Rated: R (at least).
Warnings: rape (graphic and non), forced pregnancy, forced marriage, a tiny bit of kink, incest, violence, emotional abuse and humiliation, misogynistic characters.
Summary: A "Jack's a girl and a lesbian" AU. Jaqui Benjamin has been locked in a bedroom with her fiancee Luke Wolfson, forced to produce an heir, as punishment for attempting to stage a coup for the throne of Gilboa. Can her friend save her? If so, what happens next?
UNBETAED.
Notes: My attempt to explore gender roles and certain Unfortunate Implications on the show. It's taking place post series finale (The New King pt2) with frequent flashbacks to both the last 12 episodes and events that happen before the pilot. It's largely from Jack's point of view, with occasional forays into David's. You might need to be familiar with the show and/or the Biblical text it's based on, possibly both.
( Casting and Inspiration: You do not have to read this part )
Queens.
Pairings: David/Jack, Jack/Lucinda, Jack/Andrew, David/Michelle
Rated: R (at least).
Warnings: rape (graphic and non), forced pregnancy, forced marriage, a tiny bit of kink, incest, violence, emotional abuse and humiliation, misogynistic characters.
Summary: A "Jack's a girl and a lesbian" AU. Jaqui Benjamin has been locked in a bedroom with her fiancee Luke Wolfson, forced to produce an heir, as punishment for attempting to stage a coup for the throne of Gilboa. Can her friend save her? If so, what happens next?
UNBETAED.
Notes: My attempt to explore gender roles and certain Unfortunate Implications on the show. It's taking place post series finale (The New King pt2) with frequent flashbacks to both the last 12 episodes and events that happen before the pilot. It's largely from Jack's point of view, with occasional forays into David's. You might need to be familiar with the show and/or the Biblical text it's based on, possibly both.
( Casting and Inspiration: You do not have to read this part )
Les Mis plus Kings
Apr. 9th, 2013 05:23 pmSomeone did a Kings fanvid to One Day More. It's pretty good. There are other stories that are better parallels, but the vidder really has made it work.
I mean, you giggle a little at Jack being Eponine because he totally is but it's still funny, and you picture him wandering a darkened street belting out "On My Own" and you start to feel a bit more sober then you remember "A Little Fall of Rain". Now it's not funny at all.
There's a TJ Hammond vid to "I Dreamed a Dream" which is also pretty good, but I'd really love to do that one for Jack too. OMG do I want to. I could have that done in less than two weeks.
.
I mean, you giggle a little at Jack being Eponine because he totally is but it's still funny, and you picture him wandering a darkened street belting out "On My Own" and you start to feel a bit more sober then you remember "A Little Fall of Rain". Now it's not funny at all.
There's a TJ Hammond vid to "I Dreamed a Dream" which is also pretty good, but I'd really love to do that one for Jack too. OMG do I want to. I could have that done in less than two weeks.
.
Fridge Brilliance in Kings, pt 3
Apr. 9th, 2013 12:07 amIt's not just that they are obviously fans of the original story and did their research well. I think they also read all the various novelizations and watched what exists on film and maybe even dipped into fanfic. I swear I've read that "locked in a room til you produce a kid" scenario in one of the novel adaptations but it's been awhile and it wasn't Jonathan who got locked up.
And check out their detailed worldbuilding. It includes the weather patterns and mentions that they're on the metric system and love soccer.
"Indigenous foods: turkey, white-tailed deer venison, potatoes, corn, and squash." Those are 99 percent indigenous North American foods. So I don't know if that answers the "Where are we?" question.
When Silas takes David to see his Secret Other Family, David bonds with little Seth. Silas and Helen watch them and comment that Seth has "found a new friend". Considering which Biblical character Seth is based on (he grows up to try and seize the crown and fails, so so badly) this is amusing.
( 21-27 )
On the first page of our story
The future seemed so bright
Then the saint turned out so evil
I don't know why i'm still surprised
Even angels have their wicked schemes
And you take that to new extremes
But you'll always be my hero
Even though you've lost your mind
-Skyler Grey, "Love the Way You Lie" (original recording).
And check out their detailed worldbuilding. It includes the weather patterns and mentions that they're on the metric system and love soccer.
"Indigenous foods: turkey, white-tailed deer venison, potatoes, corn, and squash." Those are 99 percent indigenous North American foods. So I don't know if that answers the "Where are we?" question.
When Silas takes David to see his Secret Other Family, David bonds with little Seth. Silas and Helen watch them and comment that Seth has "found a new friend". Considering which Biblical character Seth is based on (he grows up to try and seize the crown and fails, so so badly) this is amusing.
( 21-27 )
On the first page of our story
The future seemed so bright
Then the saint turned out so evil
I don't know why i'm still surprised
Even angels have their wicked schemes
And you take that to new extremes
But you'll always be my hero
Even though you've lost your mind
-Skyler Grey, "Love the Way You Lie" (original recording).
